Over chocolate milk, Rice Krispies and coffee we had a venting session about yesterday’s dad visit. It used to be that our rants were punctuated with tears and “How long do we have to do these visits?” Now the rants are filled with laughs, OMGs, “Can you believe hims?” and “How long do we have to do these visits?”
“Why does everything have to be about him?”
“You know the answer, Bud. It’s like the ground shifts under him when things stop being about him. He needs everything to be about him to have some sense of control. It doesn’t make sense. It’s frustrating. Imagine what it’s like to live like that.”
“But then why isn’t he interested in my stuff?”
“Because he doesn’t know how to relate to you. He’s waiting for you to be interested in something he can relate to, and then he’ll annex that, too. Try asking him questions, and then maybe he’ll talk to you more.”
“When I do, he lectures me or tells me scary stuff. What’s up with that? Why does he always shock us with scary stories?”
“Maybe he does that to try and keep your attention. I don’t know. I’ve been wanting to search to see if there is a connection between narcissists and a fascination with the macabre.”
“What’s macabre?”
“Um…. it’s like a preoccupation with gruesome or scary stuff – you know, like awful stories in the news or freaky books and horror movies.”
“Or dad visits?”
“Yeah, that probably falls under macabre.”
“Maybe it’d be better if we let him decide what we do on visits.”
“Yeah. Right. Like when he takes us rafting on the river in a thunderstorm? No thanks!”
“I gotta get in the shower. Let’s wrap up this counseling session. Are you guys good to get on your lists?”
“I s’pose. Do we have to do visits with him next week?”
“You guys know the answer to that.”
I got up from the couch to walk down the hall and heard Jenny say, “Mom, you don’t deserve the dad you got.”
I turned to look at her and said, “You don’t deserve the dad you got either, honey. I guess that puts us in the same tippy boat. We’re in good company! It’ll be a fine ride as long as we have chocolate milk, coffee and Twizzlers.”
I headed back down the hall and heard her yell, “I’ll help you paddle!”
Tags: child of narcissist, encouragement, front lines, narcissism, narcissist behavior, narcissistic behavior, NPD, Parenting, survive
<3 how frank you guys are about the things that drive you crazy regarding the N. It just hit me that one of the things driving me crazy now is that my husband will not discuss his mother's narcissism to our children. In my eyes this basically leaves them defenseless against the onslaught of her constant attention seeking and manipulation. I suppose it's something I'll need to bring up in our couples counseling ;-) Oh, and I think you're dead right about the macabre thing (yes that was intentional LOL).
Jenn,
That’s funny about the macabre stuff.
Well…. this is what I see…
“Oh! Hm… bad behavior… let’s sweep it under the rug. Quick! If we don’t talk about it, it will go away. We will pretend everything is fine. We’ll look good from the outside world.”
No one addresses the fact that the kids go around thinking that kind of treatment is normal. Or…. if the kids think the treatment doesn’t feel good, and are intuitive enough to know the treatment isn’t normal, the kids internalize and think they are being treated that way because of something they are doing or because of who they are.
That’s why we are honest, open and frank about narcissism. I don’t want them feeling like they are the reason for this craziness.
In total agreement with your reasoning, and I honestly think the reason the husband doesn’t want to talk about it with the kids is that it’s painful and embarrassing for him. He grew up in that and never once saw anything strange or weird about it. So it’s difficult for him to talk to his own children about it because in a sense he never escaped that part of his childhood.
I’ve tried very hard to give him the space he needs to deal with his mother, but this is something that needs to be dealt with for the health of our kiddos.
Have you ever thought about writing a book about narcissism for kiddos? It’d be brilliant ;-)
I do tiptoe around it sometimes because I feel like I have to be careful in the eyes of the court….for now. We are seeing another counselor, but sometimes I stop myself from sharing everything because I suppose it can seem as if I am tilting the attitude. I want them to see what I see in my son and make the associations themselves. I know they will, but I can’t make it appear that I planted anything about “dad being wrong”. It’s stupid, but the courts see this as alienation and some lose custody over it! I can’t take that chance.
Jenn,
I’m sending a truck load of hugs to your husband. It is SO frickin’ difficult to wrap our brains around a new definition of normal. That boat takes a LONG time to veer away from its established course of what we thought was healthy to a new course of what IS healthy. He’s blessed to have your compassion and empathy and patience. I understand the embarrassment. I still feel embarrassment and shame.
Jenn, your suggestion gave me goose bumps! Thank you!!
Z,
I completely understand!! It’s not worth the risk! You’ll have an opportunity to honestly answer your son’s questions when it is safe to do so.
Your comment sheds more light on the insidiousness of narcissism, and how so many – including the courts – are still duped by narcissism.
The “parental alienation” expression gets me riled!
*screams / pounds fist on purple table*
What about child alienation?! How many really understand and address the abusiveness of narcissism on children?
Don’t get me started…
Jesse,
You’re the one person I’ve met (online or in person) who can handle talking to kiddos about narcissism on their level & just make some kind of sense out of it. If that suggestion tickled you in a good way, you should go for it! All the thrivers would cheer you on. ;-)
Oh I know! It’s so stupid that I have to play games and keep my mouth shut because it only takes one judge to drink the kool-aid and my child’s life is forever altered. And it makes me so angry that he has to really figure out a lot on his own (child alienation for sure!) when he could be in a much better place emotionally if I could just support him differently, more honestly. For now, I give a lot of choices, empowerment to make his own decisions, explanations on parenting responsibilities vs. other behavior, take him to a safe place to vent his feelings (which he is doing well!), validation, and encourage him to express his feelings without putting my words to them even though I know what it is he is feeling and understand his frustrations. I mean, for God’s sake, parental alienation is sometimes a GOOD THING!
Jenn,
My brain is reeling with ideas for the book. Will and Jenny thought your idea was cool, too! Thanks!!
Z,
Yes. Yes. YES!
You heard it here folks! Sometimes – especially when dealing with an abusively narcissistic parent – parental alienation is a GOOD THING!
Thank you, Zaira, for having the courage to say that out loud!
Z,
HUGS going to you & your kiddo! And yes, in cases of narcissism parental alienation can be a VERY good thing.